Comments on: Voxtropolis Cafe http://alexmcmanus.org/2005/11/03/voxtropolis-cafe/ On a Quest Into the Mystic... Fri, 10 Sep 2010 23:44:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Bill Colburn http://alexmcmanus.org/2005/11/03/voxtropolis-cafe/comment-page-1/#comment-3044 Bill Colburn Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:06:23 +0000 http://alexmcmanus.org/?p=126#comment-3044 Amen to the missionally incarnational - getting into the marketplace to build relationships with those we wouldn't otherwise ever get to know. After 25 years of ministry, my wife and I left a senior pastorate position last year to start a cafe. We wanted to be in the middle of where God said he would be at work. We have been finding more evidences of God's presence outside the 'church' than inside! Intentionally, there is nothing 'Christian' about our cafe - no crosses, Christian music, books, pictures, etc. We have nothing 'Christian' to divert people's attention from the Spirit. We have folks from all walks of life, from various religious, ethnic and racial backgrounds. All safely and securely meet under our one 'roof' only having a growing relationship with my wife and myself in common with each other. Through us they meet each other. The only thing 'Christian' about our cafe is that we invite the Spirit to teach us, lead us, and to use us in building meaningful new relationships with those who come to our cafe. I believe there is a place for preaching and teaching - but not here in the market place - at least in the traditional sense of preaching and teaching. This is a place for identifying, experiencing and being led by the power of God alone. There are no spiffy four-color tracts, gospel presentations, invites to church, free bibles, or pretense in relationship building. We treat each person as a precious child of god - whatever their response. We hope to see foundational faith birthed by the Spirit, not by a religious institution - which we believe gets 'believers' off onto the Christian life on the wrong footing. We are not inviting God to bless our clever activities in His name. Instead, we have simply decided to go where God said he would be working and to learn to discern his work in each persons life and set our hearts to be ready to be used by him. His work is to reveal Christ in us as the same 'spirit' that is speaking to them. Each person we meet is an exciting opportunity to discover the Spirit at work in ways we never imagined and in ways most of these people do not yet understand. When they get to know us they, hopefully, get to meet Christ living out his life within us. We believe the Spirit will then speak to their hearts, in a way they can understand, helping them to sense a resonance between the Spirit who is working both in their lives and in ours. We believe a person's faith best grows when they have 'discovered' the truth, rather than when they have been 'told' the truth. In the market place God may use us as a catalyst in this discovery process. We have also opted not to try to build a 'church' within our cafe walls - though this was my initial intention. I discovered that such a plan compromised me in the eyes of our customers - making them question my motivations. I have no secret plans to make them all church goers or members of my own little church. My motivations are quite simple: allow them to meet Jesus in us and let the Spirit continue to lead from there. We obviously need to be in this for the long haul, planting seeds of Christian love and trusting the Spirit to nurture each new seedling. Amen to the missionally incarnational - getting into the marketplace to build relationships with those we wouldn’t otherwise ever get to know.

After 25 years of ministry, my wife and I left a senior pastorate position last year to start a cafe. We wanted to be in the middle of where God said he would be at work. We have been finding more evidences of God’s presence outside the ‘church’ than inside!

Intentionally, there is nothing ‘Christian’ about our cafe - no crosses, Christian music, books, pictures, etc. We have nothing ‘Christian’ to divert people’s attention from the Spirit. We have folks from all walks of life, from various religious, ethnic and racial backgrounds. All safely and securely meet under our one ‘roof’ only having a growing relationship with my wife and myself in common with each other. Through us they meet each other. The only thing ‘Christian’ about our cafe is that we invite the Spirit to teach us, lead us, and to use us in building meaningful new relationships with those who come to our cafe.

I believe there is a place for preaching and teaching - but not here in the market place - at least in the traditional sense of preaching and teaching. This is a place for identifying, experiencing and being led by the power of God alone. There are no spiffy four-color tracts, gospel presentations, invites to church, free bibles, or pretense in relationship building. We treat each person as a precious child of god - whatever their response. We hope to see foundational faith birthed by the Spirit, not by a religious institution - which we believe gets ‘believers’ off onto the Christian life on the wrong footing. We are not inviting God to bless our clever activities in His name. Instead, we have simply decided to go where God said he would be working and to learn to discern his work in each persons life and set our hearts to be ready to be used by him. His work is to reveal Christ in us as the same ’spirit’ that is speaking to them.

Each person we meet is an exciting opportunity to discover the Spirit at work in ways we never imagined and in ways most of these people do not yet understand. When they get to know us they, hopefully, get to meet Christ living out his life within us. We believe the Spirit will then speak to their hearts, in a way they can understand, helping them to sense a resonance between the Spirit who is working both in their lives and in ours. We believe a person’s faith best grows when they have ‘discovered’ the truth, rather than when they have been ‘told’ the truth. In the market place God may use us as a catalyst in this discovery process.

We have also opted not to try to build a ‘church’ within our cafe walls - though this was my initial intention. I discovered that such a plan compromised me in the eyes of our customers - making them question my motivations. I have no secret plans to make them all church goers or members of my own little church. My motivations are quite simple: allow them to meet Jesus in us and let the Spirit continue to lead from there. We obviously need to be in this for the long haul, planting seeds of Christian love and trusting the Spirit to nurture each new seedling.

]]> By: Meaningless http://alexmcmanus.org/2005/11/03/voxtropolis-cafe/comment-page-1/#comment-3041 Meaningless Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:08:11 +0000 http://alexmcmanus.org/?p=126#comment-3041 <strong>Voxtropolis cafes and great comments</strong> This post is especially for my friend Bill, but also anyone interested in cafes, coffeehouses, restaurants, etc. as a new location and strategy for advancing the Kingdom. An alternative to church that bypasses the barriers and stigmas attached to chur... Voxtropolis cafes and great comments

This post is especially for my friend Bill, but also anyone interested in cafes, coffeehouses, restaurants, etc. as a new location and strategy for advancing the Kingdom. An alternative to church that bypasses the barriers and stigmas attached to chur…

]]> By: Nicolas Nelson http://alexmcmanus.org/2005/11/03/voxtropolis-cafe/comment-page-1/#comment-2016 Nicolas Nelson Sat, 07 Jan 2006 12:50:49 +0000 http://alexmcmanus.org/?p=126#comment-2016 I have been emailing with <a href="http://www.workingfaith.com" rel="nofollow">Joyce Millikan</a> of Working Faith about these ideas; I hope she will join the conversation. (I hope this conversation continues!) She says <i>"It seems a mission-minded Christian led/owned business has a better vehicle with which to impact people with Christ's ministry than does the church... Business as a mission vehicle has the potential to provide people many ways of growing up: in faith (potentially), in skills (certainly), in people relations (definitely), and in financial responsibility (hopefully)."</i> As an example, Joyce sent me the article below. I don't know if Weaver Street is Christ-focused or not, but it is very easy to imagine a team of mystic warriors creating this sort of thing: <b>Weaver Street Cooperative</b> Living Economy Award For its sustainable products, community focus, and democratic governance. <i>At a meeting in 2002, urban design consultant Dan Burden pointed to two photographs taken on the lawn of the Weaver Street Market. One showed people sitting and talking on the stone wall around the market's outdoor fountain. The other showed kids on the market's lawn, laughing. "I show these two images to the nation," Burden said. "This is the pinnacle of excellence of public space. The Weaver Street area is something you are doing better than any other place in the nation. That's your greatness." In its small town of Carrboro, N.C., the 17-year-old Weaver Street Market Cooperative is more than a food store -- it's a community hub, with a stated mission of creating a "vibrant, sustainable community." The grocery store features an outdoor space with sculpture, fountain, tables, and benches. And the store hosts food and music events three times a week that attract hundreds of local residents. The store emphasizes sustainably produced foods, purchased locally as much as possible. Its glass bottle milk comes from a dairy seven miles away; its heritage breed poultry comes from farmers in the next county; and its pork comes from a local farmer's co-op. "We try to connect people to their own food," said general manager Ruffin Slater. Yet Weaver Street is more than a food market. It runs a restaurant, Panzanella, also devoted to locally produced and seasonal foods, which hosts frequent special dinners and wine tastings to show off local producers. The cooperative donated staff time and unused real estate to create a new community radio station. And it created a nonprofit to build affordable housing. When residents nearby wanted a second market, they approached Weaver Street to open one. It did so, and 600 subscribers signed up to finance the venture. The co-op also began deliberate outreach to hire Hispanics, who are now 20 percent of the workforce and have been a huge benefit to the store. "They are a very stable workforce, which is a rarity in the food service business," said Slater. This focus on community service arises naturally from the design of Weaver Street, which is incorporated as a cooperative. One of the seven formal guiding principles of all cooperatives is "concern for community." A second cooperative principle is "democratic member control." Weaver Street Cooperative is one of the few hybrid coops in the U.S., owned by both workers and consumers, governed by a board reflecting this dual ownership. The element of employee ownership gives Weaver Street a competitive advantage, said Slater. "Our staff's commitment to food and fun is what differentiates us and has been instrumental to our success." The store has 75 employee-owners. Capital funding for the co-op has come from 8,000 consumers who invested an average of $100 to join the co-op. When the board recently suggested raising the membership fee to $200 in order to pay off bank debts, the proposal touched off a storm of controversy. "It will be a much longer approval process than we thought," said Slater, noting that the proposal is still pending. "We really are a great example of the living economy," Slater added. "Because of our ownership structure, we are here to serve the community. With most retail stores, decisions are made strictly based on profit. We at Weaver Street are freed up to be creative, a community where consumers know the shopkeepers." Ruffin Slater, General Manager, Weaver Street Cooperative, 101 East Weaver St., Carrboro, NC 27510. Phone: 919-929-0010. Email: feedback@weaverstreetmarket.coop </i> <b>This article appears in the Fall 2005 issue of Business Ethics. To request a free sample copy, e-mail Fall2005AwardsIssue@business-ethics.com</b> I have been emailing with Joyce Millikan of Working Faith about these ideas; I hope she will join the conversation. (I hope this conversation continues!) She says “It seems a mission-minded Christian led/owned business has a better vehicle with which to impact people with Christ’s ministry than does the church… Business as a mission vehicle has the potential to provide people many ways of growing up: in faith (potentially), in skills (certainly), in people relations (definitely), and in financial responsibility (hopefully).”

As an example, Joyce sent me the article below. I don’t know if Weaver Street is Christ-focused or not, but it is very easy to imagine a team of mystic warriors creating this sort of thing:

Weaver Street Cooperative
Living Economy Award
For its sustainable products, community focus, and democratic governance.

At a meeting in 2002, urban design consultant Dan Burden pointed to two photographs taken on the lawn of the Weaver Street Market. One showed people sitting and talking on the stone wall around the market’s outdoor fountain. The other showed kids on the market’s lawn, laughing. “I show these two images to the nation,” Burden said. “This is the pinnacle of excellence of public space. The Weaver Street area is something you are doing better than any other place in the nation. That’s your greatness.”

In its small town of Carrboro, N.C., the 17-year-old Weaver Street Market Cooperative is more than a food store — it’s a community hub, with a stated mission of creating a “vibrant, sustainable community.” The grocery store features an outdoor space with sculpture, fountain, tables, and benches. And the store hosts food and music events three times a week that attract hundreds of local residents. The store emphasizes sustainably produced foods, purchased locally as much as possible. Its glass bottle milk comes from a dairy seven miles away; its heritage breed poultry comes from farmers in the next county; and its pork comes from a local farmer’s co-op. “We try to connect people to their own food,” said general manager Ruffin Slater.

Yet Weaver Street is more than a food market. It runs a restaurant, Panzanella, also devoted to locally produced and seasonal foods, which hosts frequent special dinners and wine tastings to show off local producers. The cooperative donated staff time and unused real estate to create a new community radio station. And it created a nonprofit to build affordable housing. When residents nearby wanted a second market, they approached Weaver Street to open one. It did so, and 600 subscribers signed up to finance the venture. The co-op also began deliberate outreach to hire Hispanics, who are now 20 percent of the workforce and have been a huge benefit to the store. “They are a very stable workforce, which is a rarity in the food service business,” said Slater.

This focus on community service arises naturally from the design of Weaver Street, which is incorporated as a cooperative. One of the seven formal guiding principles of all cooperatives is “concern for community.” A second cooperative principle is “democratic member control.” Weaver Street Cooperative is one of the few hybrid coops in the U.S., owned by both workers and consumers, governed by a board reflecting this dual ownership.

The element of employee ownership gives Weaver Street a competitive advantage, said Slater. “Our staff’s commitment to food and fun is what differentiates us and has been instrumental to our success.” The store has 75 employee-owners.

Capital funding for the co-op has come from 8,000 consumers who invested an average of $100 to join the co-op. When the board recently suggested raising the membership fee to $200 in order to pay off bank debts, the proposal touched off a storm of controversy. “It will be a much longer approval process than we thought,” said Slater, noting that the proposal is still pending.

“We really are a great example of the living economy,” Slater added. “Because of our ownership structure, we are here to serve the community. With most retail stores, decisions are made strictly based on profit. We at Weaver Street are freed up to be creative, a community where consumers know the shopkeepers.”

Ruffin Slater, General Manager, Weaver Street Cooperative, 101 East Weaver St., Carrboro, NC 27510. Phone: 919-929-0010. Email: feedback@weaverstreetmarket.coop

This article appears in the Fall 2005 issue of Business Ethics. To request a free sample copy, e-mail Fall2005AwardsIssue@business-ethics.com

]]> By: Nicolas Nelson http://alexmcmanus.org/2005/11/03/voxtropolis-cafe/comment-page-1/#comment-1901 Nicolas Nelson Wed, 07 Dec 2005 19:28:28 +0000 http://alexmcmanus.org/?p=126#comment-1901 ron said, <i>"Why would a city want another church built in it when each one steals another chunk of tax revenue? Why not shift the paradigm so that a city would welcome a new church because it not only improves the intangibles but also produces wealth which can be used to improve the lives of all it’s citizens? I feel like the non-profit status is one of the largest sacred cows we have left - are we going to hold onto our tax exempt status at the cost of pushing the gospel forward or is it a ball and chain holding us back?</i> Wow. New thought. Tasting-- it's good. Digesting-- it's healthy. Everything you have said, ron, has resonated with me. My greatest fear in life is (as far as I know my own heart) not poverty but to be living proof of the truth of Mel's evil rumor, “Christians use the grace of God to excuse the fact that they are crappy at what they do for a living.” If I can manage not to be crappy at what I am doing, I will create wealth to some degree. If I can do it excellently (writing, tutoring, marketing/property management), then I will create a lot of wealth. And my dear hope is not only to be all that ron and Mel describe, but to someday help fund Voxtropolis dreams like Kristi Cornwell's and Christina's and many other "evangelpreneurial" schemes (good word, ron). May we all "create a space where the world can meet Christ, not build a place where the church can meet.” ron said, “Why would a city want another church built in it when each one steals another chunk of tax revenue? Why not shift the paradigm so that a city would welcome a new church because it not only improves the intangibles but also produces wealth which can be used to improve the lives of all it’s citizens? I feel like the non-profit status is one of the largest sacred cows we have left - are we going to hold onto our tax exempt status at the cost of pushing the gospel forward or is it a ball and chain holding us back?

Wow. New thought. Tasting– it’s good. Digesting– it’s healthy. Everything you have said, ron, has resonated with me. My greatest fear in life is (as far as I know my own heart) not poverty but to be living proof of the truth of Mel’s evil rumor, “Christians use the grace of God to excuse the fact that they are crappy at what they do for a living.”

If I can manage not to be crappy at what I am doing, I will create wealth to some degree. If I can do it excellently (writing, tutoring, marketing/property management), then I will create a lot of wealth. And my dear hope is not only to be all that ron and Mel describe, but to someday help fund Voxtropolis dreams like Kristi Cornwell’s and Christina’s and many other “evangelpreneurial” schemes (good word, ron).

May we all “create a space where the world can meet Christ, not build a place where the church can meet.”

]]> By: kingdom.blog » Blog Archive » A space where the world can meet Christ http://alexmcmanus.org/2005/11/03/voxtropolis-cafe/comment-page-1/#comment-1217 kingdom.blog » Blog Archive » A space where the world can meet Christ Tue, 08 Nov 2005 08:17:52 +0000 http://alexmcmanus.org/?p=126#comment-1217 [...] A guy called Ron posted the following comment on Alex McManus’ recent blog post discussion about Voxtropolis cafe’s: [...] [...] A guy called Ron posted the following comment on Alex McManus’ recent blog post discussion about Voxtropolis cafe’s: [...]

]]> By: Albert http://alexmcmanus.org/2005/11/03/voxtropolis-cafe/comment-page-1/#comment-1215 Albert Tue, 08 Nov 2005 05:21:47 +0000 http://alexmcmanus.org/?p=126#comment-1215 You're right. I understand the need to eliminate the word “just”, especially the way I used it here. I'm only saying "how can I get involved and do what you guys and gals are doing for the Kingdom?" Some of this is all new to me like barista, what's this? I want to join you. I also have the burning desire to reach those that need to hear Christ's message but will probably not attend a church. This is exciting and it blows me away just reading your posts and knowing there are people who have been dreaming of this for months or years. You are the innovators, the world changers, thanks for sharing your vision with us. Alex, I want to learn more about "into the mystic". You’re right. I understand the need to eliminate the word “just”, especially the way I used it here. I’m only saying “how can I get involved and do what you guys and gals are doing for the Kingdom?” Some of this is all new to me like barista, what’s this? I want to join you. I also have the burning desire to reach those that need to hear Christ’s message but will probably not attend a church. This is exciting and it blows me away just reading your posts and knowing there are people who have been dreaming of this for months or years. You are the innovators, the world changers, thanks for sharing your vision with us. Alex, I want to learn more about “into the mystic”.

]]> By: Mel http://alexmcmanus.org/2005/11/03/voxtropolis-cafe/comment-page-1/#comment-1213 Mel Tue, 08 Nov 2005 01:07:33 +0000 http://alexmcmanus.org/?p=126#comment-1213 Ron, Good questions. I don't feel I can speak to whether churches should maintain non-profit status. But as to the question of whether it is God-honoring to create wealth...it is not having wealth or even giving away wealth that God cares about, I think, so much as it is whether we can trust him with it. If he asks us to give, we should do so-- cheerfully, without hesitation, without fear. Which is tough because poverty really is most peoples' greatest fear. It was C.S. Lewis, I think, who said that he thought "the only safe thing to do was to give more than you think you can afford." Poverty was his greatest fear; he admitted as much. And yet, when he died, it was discovered that he had given away about two thirds of his income annually, to individuals and to charities-- and <i>he</i> thought that he had never done enough. Hmmm...what life <i>could</i> look like...the possibilities. Ron,

Good questions. I don’t feel I can speak to whether churches should maintain non-profit status. But as to the question of whether it is God-honoring to create wealth…it is not having wealth or even giving away wealth that God cares about, I think, so much as it is whether we can trust him with it. If he asks us to give, we should do so– cheerfully, without hesitation, without fear. Which is tough because poverty really is most peoples’ greatest fear.

It was C.S. Lewis, I think, who said that he thought “the only safe thing to do was to give more than you think you can afford.” Poverty was his greatest fear; he admitted as much. And yet, when he died, it was discovered that he had given away about two thirds of his income annually, to individuals and to charities– and he thought that he had never done enough. Hmmm…what life could look like…the possibilities.

]]> By: daniel http://alexmcmanus.org/2005/11/03/voxtropolis-cafe/comment-page-1/#comment-1211 daniel Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:38:29 +0000 http://alexmcmanus.org/?p=126#comment-1211 what's up man! i'm a friend of chris and anne jackson and they told me about you and this website. so i thought i'd check it out. i've kind of joined a similar ministry that a church here in Kansas has started. they built an amazing coffee shop and have opened it to the community. this opened in june and things have been slow but somewhat picking up. we are having our first of hopefully many music nights coming up in a couple weeks. it's a great ministry and i think that coffee shops are one of the best and most influential ways to meet people and get to know them on a deeper maybe spiritual level. i'm the manager of the coffee shop and have been a barista for a couple of years now. i would love to hear how everything works out with that so keep us updated! what’s up man! i’m a friend of chris and anne jackson and they told me about you and this website. so i thought i’d check it out. i’ve kind of joined a similar ministry that a church here in Kansas has started. they built an amazing coffee shop and have opened it to the community. this opened in june and things have been slow but somewhat picking up. we are having our first of hopefully many music nights coming up in a couple weeks. it’s a great ministry and i think that coffee shops are one of the best and most influential ways to meet people and get to know them on a deeper maybe spiritual level. i’m the manager of the coffee shop and have been a barista for a couple of years now. i would love to hear how everything works out with that so keep us updated!

]]> By: ron http://alexmcmanus.org/2005/11/03/voxtropolis-cafe/comment-page-1/#comment-1210 ron Mon, 07 Nov 2005 02:07:43 +0000 http://alexmcmanus.org/?p=126#comment-1210 Alex - I know the podcast question you posed was a while ago but I think it would be great to inject it back into this discussion now. Is it a Christ following value to create wealth? Had this discussion with the owner of the restaurant we meet in. God obviously made him with the ability to see certain things and he has used it to build a successful business. His business produces wealth for him. He isn't a greedy man, he is a generous man and used both the wealth and his facility in kingdom causes (God honoring things). He also provides employment for people (a God honoring thing). He provides a good meal at a fair price for his community (a God honoring thing), he creates tax revenue for the city which needs wealth in order to build infrastructure (a God honoring thing). Our city made me consider this question because we have so much non-taxable property in the city 9we house the world's largest naval base) that it has hampered our ability to have healthy growth. Why would a city want another church built in it when each one steals another chunk of tax revenue? Why not shift the paradigm so that a city would welcome a new church because it not only improves the intangibles but also produces wealth which can be used to improve the lives of all it's citizens? I feel like the non-profit status is one of the largest sacred cows we have left - are we going to hold onto our tax exempt status at the cost of pushing the gospel forward or is it a ball and chain holding us back? I think we will need to become evangepreneurs (ok so that term may be a bit corny..) if we are going to create a future which honors Jesus. Alex - I know the podcast question you posed was a while ago but I think it would be great to inject it back into this discussion now. Is it a Christ following value to create wealth? Had this discussion with the owner of the restaurant we meet in. God obviously made him with the ability to see certain things and he has used it to build a successful business. His business produces wealth for him. He isn’t a greedy man, he is a generous man and used both the wealth and his facility in kingdom causes (God honoring things). He also provides employment for people (a God honoring thing). He provides a good meal at a fair price for his community (a God honoring thing), he creates tax revenue for the city which needs wealth in order to build infrastructure (a God honoring thing). Our city made me consider this question because we have so much non-taxable property in the city 9we house the world’s largest naval base) that it has hampered our ability to have healthy growth. Why would a city want another church built in it when each one steals another chunk of tax revenue? Why not shift the paradigm so that a city would welcome a new church because it not only improves the intangibles but also produces wealth which can be used to improve the lives of all it’s citizens? I feel like the non-profit status is one of the largest sacred cows we have left - are we going to hold onto our tax exempt status at the cost of pushing the gospel forward or is it a ball and chain holding us back? I think we will need to become evangepreneurs (ok so that term may be a bit corny..) if we are going to create a future which honors Jesus.

]]> By: Beth http://alexmcmanus.org/2005/11/03/voxtropolis-cafe/comment-page-1/#comment-1208 Beth Mon, 07 Nov 2005 01:15:00 +0000 http://alexmcmanus.org/?p=126#comment-1208 Haven't popped into your world in several days, and I just have to say this conversation is AMAZING. Thanks. Haven’t popped into your world in several days, and I just have to say this conversation is AMAZING.

Thanks.

]]>